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The Warriors

4/28/2015

29 Comments

 

2.76
B-

  • Let's face it, this is obviously a low-budget movie that objectifies women, has some goofy characters that make no sense, and some TERRIBLE acting.  But it's fun and it gets away with it. - Shane
  • This movie really would have benefited from solid fight choreographer. - Bobby
  • The Baseball Furies knew how to run with a bat. - Bryan 
Initial Review by Sean

Let's get right to it. Jon always talks about "the stakes" in a movie. Well The Warriors set the stakes with the best of them.  The opening sequence of the movie does about as good a job setting the stakes as any movie we've watched so far.   The cuts of the mini conversations among The Warriors with the map of the longway from CI to the Bronx to the other gangs getting on their trains all to some pretty kickass music and that's a great intro. 

You got 9 guys representing a Coney Island gang unarmed at a meetup of all the gangs of NYC.  Why are they unarmed and why are they going, they cover it- Cyrus called the meeting and has enough respect in the city as president of the Riffs to inspire a truce. We learn about who these Warriors are and what are their motives. Cleon is the leader, Swan is the quiet 2nd in command, Ajax (Dexters dad) likes fighting and screwing, I wonder if he can read the news, Rembrandt must be somebody's little brother because all he brings is a can of spray paint. I imagine they needed a tagger and just decided it was him and they could call him Rembrandt. They said, we want a really badass W, kinda old English style but with Indian feathers and shit and a tomahawk.  He draws a crooked regular print capital W and says how's this. Cleon and Swan decide he's clearly retarded and just let him think it's just what they wanted.  Speaking of the gang, did anyone else find it refreshing to see such racially diverse gangs in the 70s? 

Onto the meeting, perhaps if Cyrus (who I always thought was played by Larry Fishburn, guess not) had pulled some permits maybe the cops wouldn't have shown up and at least some of the chaos after his assassination would've been averted. Definitely unintentional parallel to rioting in Baltimore of people vs the police to Cyrus' speech I was not thinking about #socialjustice when I picked the movie. At the speech we get to meet the guy who later delivers one of the most famously creepy lines in movie history, Luther- henceforth known as not Sean Penn, is the perfect crazy bastard troublemaker for the part.  David Patrick Kelly aka not Sean Penn aka Luther delivers by far the best performance in a movie that admittedly contained very few solid acting performances.  Shots fired and the crazy fuck quickly and smartly blames the gang whose member saw him do it. In the chaos surrounding it works and all eyes are on The Warriors and poor Cleon goes down.  

Putting the word out that all gangs are to come after the Warriors, the DJ's, henceforth known as "The Chief" because she was the chief in Where in the World is Carmen San Diego, not so subtle lines and music choices do a great job setting the table.  I love her voice.  Her tone and enunciation make her perfect for radio.

First up we run from a bus of  the Turnbull ACs, this is the first real negative I have, the shot was too long, the bus would've rode them down no problem with the distance they had to run based on the shot we're given and even if they get to the platform dozens of the ACs would've made the platform too for a showdown.  

The Orphans led by not David Schwimmer were an excellent addition and my favorite gang of the night.  They were such losers they kept newspaper clippings on hand to show to people they came across to tell them they were not to be messed with.  We also met Mercy played by not Rosario Dawson.  Honestly she's a wasted character, we get everything we need without a quasi-love story that develops starting with her antagonizing them into confrontation with the Orphans and wasting their only Molotov cocktail on a bunch of lame fucks. I mean their gang uniforms were dirty t-shirts with the word Orphans glued on the back, the Fiji IM T-shirt giveaways were better quality.

Next up the Baseball Furies took The Chief's baseball analogy about the Orphans being minor league up a notch by having full-on uniforms, makeup, and bats. Unfortunately for them they weren't skilled with those bats at all.

Brief talk about cops because now Ajax gets pinched because he's already fought and only needs to screw and read the news to finish his day.  Good thing Oscar-winner Mercedes Ruehl is sitting alone in the middle of the night in the park. Did anybody else think the rest of the cops took way too long to show up?  She blew the rape whistle forever before they came along.  Had it been real trouble like Son of Sam and not just Ajax she'd have been fucked.  

The Lizzies, Vermin is so stupid and driven by what I believe was referred to in the opening intros as some strange wool that he didn't realize this was obviously another gang about to come down on them. Thankfully these bitches are worse than the Furies because armed and outnumbered and enclosed on their base they let these Warriors away with barely a scratch.  

The fairest fight of the night came in the train station against a gang I didn't get the name of but can only assume by the roller skates and feathered hair that these guys were badasses and The Warriors were lucky to escape based on the element of surprise since these guys thought they were just jumping Swan.

Finally they meet the Rogues on the sand and somehow Swans sidestep knife throw not only landed but Luther's shot didn't hit Swan from close range or the people standing behind him.

I normally try not to just summarize a movie we all just watched but it was too much fun offering those summaries than not. To comment on whether it was a good movie or not I'll be fairly brief. I already mentioned they did fantastic setting the stakes to open the movie, the 9 guys were unarmed and a long way from home and everyone was out to get them.  The opening train ride with quick cut conversations probably elevated the movie a full letter grade by properly setting the tone and setting the expectations.  The fight scenes were pretty terrible but I'm going to defend them.  Did any of you get in or witness many fights growing up? They don't look like most fights you see in movies because very few people are actually both trained to fight and in really good shape and are really athletic. So the fights we get in todays movies don't happen in real life, in real life you get wild baseball bat swings that come nowhere close to the target.  The acting was terrible and the dialogue was lacking but the movie was about the tension of the journey home and obstacles one after another coming on.  Having the happy prom kids hop on the train as they were finally making it back to Coney was a nice complement to their journey, those kids recognized The Warriors had been through some shit tonight we're going to shut up and get off the train right away.

Some takeaways

continued support of NYC being shitty in the 70s
+- boring but realistic fighting
+++the stakes are set
+racial diversity
-acting
-not Rosario Dawson was a thruway character
+ don't care about the minuses because it was fun
+ between building a house and all the time spent in trainstations I was constantly thinking- hey look, subway tiles

I'm thinking B+, too much fun for the negatives to hold it down but too many negatives to hit the As's.
It would be interesting to see the remake that was supposed to happen until Tony Scott died, although research tells me none of the people involved on the creative side of the original wanted it to happen.
29 Comments
Bryan
4/28/2015 03:22:55 am

I was all in on the intro, Sean summed it up well. “Speaking of the gang, did anyone else find it refreshing to see such racially diverse gangs in the 70s” I noticed this as well, is this historically accurate?

After the intro, the shooting, and the initial break from the cemetery I was all-in. But things quickly fall apart. I’m not sure if the directors were trying to be humorous or serious - and that created problems for me. The gang members paid train fare, checked maps, ran well, and slept on the train - these were all very realistic. Much of the rest was a touch too hokey, and Phil this is where I really struggle with plot holes.

First things first, the bus would have smashed those guys in an instant. It was like he was pacing them for their best 400m sprint. Speaking of sprinting, these guys have incredible endurance. Must be a lack of video games and cell phone thing. Anyway, we’re one gang in and the Warriors should already be road kill.

Why did the Orphans run after one car explosion? How many molotov cocktails could the Warriors have possibly been carrying?

The guys with the baseball bats were fantastic. If you’re going to be a gang, one really should just be over the top. When they swung and missed hitting the tree, that shit would hurt your hands like hell, they were unphased. The Baseball Furies also knew how to run with a bat - a couple guys tucked the bat like a football and were chugging.

The scene with the lone woman in the park didn’t fit the rest of the movie. And why would a woman sit alone in a New York City park in 1979? And why would The Warriors not find that incredibly suspicious?

At this point I was really starting to fade. The Lizzies were obvious and The Warriors are just dumb.

The guy roller skating in the subway did an incredible job roller skating up the ramp with ease and not being tired. That’s tough and this is another one of those things which end up incredibly distracting for me.

The final encounter with the Rogues was predictable, but the knife throw was not - good touch.

Overall, this movie had some great subtleties and the perfect plot. When the big meeting at the beginning broke up I did not know if this was going to be a one day trek across the city or a gang turf war over a few months. Upon realizing it was a one day journey, I was pumped. The fight scenes weren’t a turn off for me, but the idiocy of opposing gangs and The Warriors was. Every characters was obviously there so The Warriors could have a movie-style journey home. The DJ made things even more of a movie rather than a story. I never fully bought in.

B-, I’d love to see the remake.

Reply
Sean
4/28/2015 03:28:19 am

The woman in the park is an undercover cop, Ajax is stupid.

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Bryan
4/28/2015 03:31:45 am

I knew she was a cop. Ajax is overly stupid and the other cops taking so long to get there was overly stupid. This scene was more movie making than story telling, much like the other bits that could have been so much more.

My point was that it seemed obvious that no sane woman sits alone on a park bench, especially in 1979 NYC.

Sean
4/28/2015 04:12:36 am

especially since she was clean, well-dressed and attractive. The only alternative to cop is prostitute and she wasnt looking very hookerly

Bryan
4/28/2015 04:34:26 am

I think serial killer has to be on that list.

So cop, hooker, or serial killer. Hmmm, what else?

Jon
4/28/2015 09:26:56 am

I had no problem with that scene. The time it took the cops to get there generated a nice bit of tension, and I'm sure she was armed if things got out of hand. Plus, there has to be some distance between the bait and the hunters, or the prey's going to get tipped off.

Why Ajax decided to take this little detour was also fine. I think the main factor in his decision was that Swan told him not to, and as Ajax thought he should be war chief, he was sick of listening to orders, even good ones.

Sean
4/28/2015 04:49:08 am

Follow the trip to Coney http://www.scoutingny.com/the-new-york-city-filming-locations-of-the-warriors-ny-youve-changed/

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Bobby
4/29/2015 02:22:39 pm

Wow, there are a lot of gangs, but they're all so small! I also noticed the diversity. Good, good.

Wow again... bad acting and double negatives! I dig the speech he's giving, but the acting here was just a quick turn off. Still... I'm interested.

It's Dexter's dad, who was also in Horns. Mercedes Ruehl (Fisher King) as well! Also, the radio DJ lips belong to... the chief on Carmen Sandiego!

This movie really would have benefited from solid fight choreographer. While they were amusing, they were pretty bad. With an estimated budget between $4 to $7 million, it feels like they could have done better in general... stunt acting including. Although, when the main acting is pretty meh, I suppose that doesn't matter.

The story was fine, and for the most part I enjoyed following the Warriors. It did, however get a bit repetitive for me. Make progress, find another gang... get away from gang, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, until they get an unresolved showdown with the Rogues. And why didn't Cyrus' uber-gang ever find them if they were looking so hard? They sure as hell found the Rogues pretty quick after they found out it was actually them!

Can you dig it!?! So this is where Booker T got his catch phrase from, sucka. Did Sting take his baseball bat and facepaint from this, too? But were they a gang of mimes? This also gave us this lil nod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIMU1Ofh_Oo


The main thing this movie has going for it is that it's simple entertainment... it's fun. It clearly had notable influence as well. That's all honestly enough to make it a decent watch, but the negatives are pretty wide spread... and it's definitely more cult hit than great movie. A good C+


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Sean
4/29/2015 02:47:38 pm

I think Dree said something about the Schmidt standard changing today or yesterday

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Bobby
4/29/2015 03:20:48 pm

Who is Dree, and what changed about the Schmidt standard?!

Sean
4/29/2015 03:52:34 pm

Dree is Drew, and I don't know I missed the Big Hero 6 talks but my impression was Drew's criticism of the Schmidt standard was entertaining equals A but I could be way off. But I'm fairly certain he said something about it always changing during 1 comment thread this week

Bobby
4/30/2015 03:09:43 am

Ah yea... Drew holding on to that one joke for a while.

A lifetime, even!

Phil
4/30/2015 03:27:28 am

I’m going to be brief in this review since I’ve already written around 12,500 words on my other blog since it’s Holy Week and all (aka Derby Week). Is The Warriors ridiculous? Yes. Are there numerous logic holes? Sure. Is the acting downright horrific? Yup. Do I give a shit about any of these complaints b/c The Warriors is the perfect pint night movie and just a ton of fun? No, I do not give any shits, sir.

There’s not much worth talking about with The Warriors other than it’s really fun. It’s kind of like watching wrestling or playing a video game. (Not surprisingly, there was a Warriors game that came out on PS2 back in 2005, and apparently, it’s great.) You know what you’re getting into, and if your brain is tuned that way, you’re in for a fun ride. The plot is super-simple, which I appreciate in a movie like this. Again, the last thing The Warriors wants you to do is think. It knew what it was and it did that well.

The one interesting theme worth talking about in this movie is the concept of pride and “being a man.” You all talked about why the Turnbulls didn’t run them down in the street. I think it’s the same reason the Warriors didn’t take their colors off in the Orphans’ turf – it wouldn’t have been the manly thing to do. That’s also what makes Luther such a despicable character. He was such a “coward,” he had to use a gun. The only other characters using guns were The Lizzies, and they didn’t have much incentive to “be men.” Watching the movie through that sort of Test of Manhood framing actually helps to explain a lot of the actions. After all, the Warriors are a fairly anonymous group. They could have easily just taken off their colors and made it back no problem. But their pride in their gang wouldn’t allow them to do that. It’s a terrible message to send, especially when you consider what’s been going on in Baltimore lately. We can go there if you all want to, but I’ll hold off for now.

The Warriors absolutely has problems, but it’s a fun a movie, and it gets a lot of its strengths from some of its weaknesses. I’m not entirely sure everyone making the movie was in on the joke like with Machete Kills or Sharknado, but it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the movie. This movie is basically the definition of a B+.

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Bryan
4/30/2015 03:48:24 am

Always with the #SocialJustice Phil.

This was a much better Pint Night movie than either Machete or Sharknado. It's actually watchable.

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Bobby
4/30/2015 07:15:54 am

So, being a 'good' pint night movie earns a good grade? It feels like you're saying, "This movie was shit, but if I'm drunk... I'll love it!"

I agree it'd make an excellent pint might movie, but I don't see how that makes it a good, near great, movie. Seems more silly than the Schmidt Standard!

Shane
5/4/2015 03:52:17 am

A movie having to be enjoyed in a certain way can be a positive... Or a negative. The Pint Night Factor is a good one in my book.

Jon
5/1/2015 07:22:22 am

Between the prom kids and the anti-climax once getting back to rundown Coney Island, the movie makes pretty clear that their gang is all the Warriors have. To take off their colors wouldn't just be unmanly, it would be betraying their whole identity.

The gang stuff in Baltimore has been dismissed as overheated fear-mongering.

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Cooker
4/30/2015 01:20:10 pm

“Warriors, come out to play.”
We can listen to some killer synth music and run around all night.
I wanted to like this movie, especially being referenced in pop culture and appearing to be an inspiration of many things ‘80s. But honestly, I simply felt cheated.
If only real gang life was like this. I couldn’t buy it. Was there a gang of mimes? I was seriously waiting for them to have a fight scene. Maybe they’d pretend to be stuck in a box to create confusion. All the themed gangs were beyond ridiculous—painted faces and baseball bats, even wearing uniforms. It makes you wonder if The Warriors was the inspiration to the vigilante Sting character and obviously Booker T got iced toward the beginning.
The plot is fine to an extent, simple enough, but the script and dialogue were horrible. There were conflicts, but they were resolved too easily. This could’ve actually been better with different choices. I understand it was based on a book (which I haven’t read), but resolutions should have been different. Swan and Ajax both want to be leader, so let’s have Ajax attack a woman on a bench and have him get arrested. Why didn’t these two guys fight at some point? All the New York gangs are after the Warriors, let’s bring in a random witness to the murder and now they’ll go after the Rogues (the gang responsible for the murder). Let’s set things up for a brawl on the beach between the Rogues and Warriors. It can then turn into a one-on-one battle between Swan and Luther (the Sean Penn doppelganger). Might I mention that the result of the fight was nothing more than the classic showdown between Kyle and Cartman on South Park. And of course we have to have the Riffs (the gang formerly headed by the slain Booker T, although the guy now in charge gave me a Matrix/ Bill and Ted kind of vibe) show up and take care of business. Who needs a huge climatic battle? It was a copout, like the vision at the end of Breaking Dawn Part 2. Don’t even get me started on the Twilight series.
The fight scenes were okay. It was the late 70s. For awhile with all the running away I was wondering if there’d even be a fight scene aside from the aftermath of the opening murder. And I know it hadn’t been made yet, but I really wanted to hear “The Warrior” by Scandal at some point during a battle.
Was this a love story? I never quite understood the deal with Swan and “Chicken Lady.” That’s what I called her after her first scene. And what was with the awkward scenes throughout: the prom couples on the train, the narrating disc jockey. A lot of stuff seemed out of place.
Two last random comments—I got tired of hearing everyone bitch about having to run/walk. Walking seems to be the plot intended. And when the three Warriors were ambushed by the gang of women, the one shooting the gun was obviously a Stormtrooper in training.
I think this movie had some potential. As an apparent cult classic, it shouldn’t be touched, but I could see a more modern version with some different plot choices and a more character driven story. Nine from each gang was probably too many. Did anyone even question the whereabouts of the Warrior that was thrown in front of the train by the police officer or did I miss that? A decent attempt and thanks for inspiring the 80s.
Grade: C+

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Bryan
4/30/2015 01:28:56 pm

You and Sean both bring up errant gun shots - from my lack of personal understanding and having seen too many Mythbusters, it's actually quite difficult to shoot well.

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Sean
4/30/2015 02:09:12 pm

Not from that range

Bobby
4/30/2015 02:28:59 pm

People who aren't trained or at least practice would still be pretty sporadic, even within 25 ft, especially if that was a double action revolver.

Sean
4/30/2015 02:11:56 pm

I love that Cooker and Bobby both mentioned Booker T and Sting, I'm hoping Drew hits it for the trifecta

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Jon
4/30/2015 08:10:01 pm

Riley pretty much sums up in his first paragraph what I was going to base much of my review on. Group is in Point A. They need to get to Point B. Their leader is possibly beaten to death in retaliation for a crime they didn't commit. Colorful, albeit violent, characters stand in their way. That's a movie with clear, succinct stakes. Add in a little bit of social commentary and a reasonably consistent world, and I'm with you. The Warriors knows exactly what it is, a fun, ridiculous trek through hostile territory.

The gang culture of the film is what sticks out the most. The Orphans' minor-league status implies a network and ecosystem throughout the city, and I think the lead Baseball Fury is as iconic as anything else. As flashy and memorable as that culture is, it's largely inscrutable. On the one hand, maybe it's just teenagers playing dress-up. In the opening montage of gangs making their way to the meeting, a member of one nine-some buys a bunch of subway tokens and pays for everyone as they go through the turnstile. There's some backstory implied in this scene, like it was his turn to pay and he'll get the next several rides paid for by one of his teammates. There's also the irony of this 'gang' obeying the rules when no one's watching, something akin to picking up their mascot dog's shit and putting it in the proper receptacle. On the other hand, Cyrus is advocating armed revolution, and the Warriors are well-practiced in the Molotov cocktail. It's difficult to tell what these gangs do outside of the confines of the film. I don't say that as a negative necessarily, but despite the very clean setup and stakes of the film, the world is mediocre-ly defined.

That's barely a valid complaint because no matter what questions the Warriors raises about its world, it's only concerned with those several hours between Point A and Point B. The Cyrus speech stands out as the film's high point, with Roger Hill's booming voice a worthy one to follow. His charisma and the sheer numbers are enough to think that these gangs could conceivably alter the city, and then turning all that might onto the Warriors is so, so effective. During their journey, director Walter Hill creates plenty of tension. I will agree that bus chase is poorly timed, but the way it culminates with the closing subway doors works. Trying to talk down the Orphans is a strong scene, though it turns out their lowly status is well-earned. The lone skater following Swan is a looming harbinger of doom, and as Bryan points out, pretty talented on those skates. Hill is also sure to depict the toll this is taking on the Warriors, as their late, exhausted subway ride is juxtaposed with their earlier one. With Lynne Thigpen calling the next move, and the Riffs chief getting updates, there's never a lull in the action or the anticipation of the next action scene.

A movie like this one doesn't really need to have any big thematic emphases, but with the inclusion of the prom couples, the Warriors just barely gets to the next level. Those kids are like an invader into this world. Where they're living a normal life, the movie, up to that point, is depicting a normalcy where each block has its own themed gang. They live in New York City, and this particular block is dominated by dudes dressed as huns. These are facts. The inclusion of the prom kids punctures that bubble, and coupled with Mercy's line about life probably getting worse, the real circumstances of these kids peeks through. Though it is abandoned, one of their friends did get thrown in front of a subway. Teens that could be in the Warriors are instead out with their girlfriends, dressed in tuxes, having a good time without fighting anyone with a baseball bat. After this scene, a big rumble with the Rogues would seem false, and the tidy way it's resolved feels true.

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Jon
4/30/2015 08:10:56 pm

I'm not going to pretend this is well-acted, because it's not. The best the various actors can hope for is having interesting looks, and on that front, they succeed. The Warriors are also uncomfortably aggressive with the few women onscreen. They always seem one sentence away from getting slapped. Ajax was clearly going to rape Mercedes Reuhl, though he still would've been a better partner than Jeff Bridges in the Fisher King. Those pretty big complaints aside, I'm generally happy with the Warriors. This was the second or third time I watched it, and once the novelty has worn off, it doesn't play very well. I might praise the pacing and the stripped-down plot, but when something is so threadbare for most of its runtime, it's easy to be distracted when you know what's coming next. If this was the first time I watched it, I'd be at a B+, since its self-knowledge is strong enough to allay any qualms about quality. Since it's not my first viewing, I'm giving this movie that everyone should see once a B-.

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Bobby
5/1/2015 02:23:40 am

The high point of the film being over in the first 5 or 10 minutes is not a good thing.

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Jon
5/1/2015 07:26:54 am

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. There's plenty of great movies that have their best scenes in the beginning. Saving Private Ryan, Inglourious Basterds, Social Network. The Warriors isn't on the level of those movies, but since it's all about immediate, physical stakes, having its best scene function as defining said stakes is a solid choice.

Sean
5/1/2015 03:54:13 pm

Is it worth a half-letter grade to anyone to imagine The Warriors as an 8-bit side scroller on NES?

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Shane
5/4/2015 03:44:10 am

Well, I'll keep this brief since I have a few of these to catch up on. I'll mostly address things in responses to other reviews in the comments.

Cult classic movies are always going to be movies that are walking on this ice as far as quality goes. The Evil Dead, Rocky Horror, etc. People love these movies despite their flaws, but objectively they leave a lot to be desired. I think, however, that if you have a good idea and story that brings an audience in so much so that they feel like they're part of the movie, you should give a subjective bump to that movie. The Warrior succeeds in this factor.

Let's face it, this is obviously a low-budget movie that objectifies women, has some goofy characters that make no sense, and some TERRIBLE acting. But it's fun and it gets away with it.

The concept is great and almost a video game like plot. It reminds me of Snowpiercer in that way. The players keep advancing levels to fight someone tougher and the viewer gets to meet new bad guys and see new worlds. This can be corny, but The Warriors do it in a glorious manner. The costumes are ridiculous, but still hilariously fun. The love story is corny as hell, but I was rooting for the kids. I didn't quite understand what type of world they were living in, but it didn't quite matter.

My favorite part was the bad guy. That dude came to plaayyyy-iyyy-yayyyy. He gave the best performance, though Dexter's dad was solid too.

In the end, what should be a C- movie ends up at a B- because it's simply a fun movie that I would watch again, preferably with a group of friends. Sometimes movies are meant to be seen that way and that's OK with me.

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Bobby
5/4/2015 05:55:31 am

Is $4 to $7 million really a 'low budget' in the 70s? For comparison, Star Wars had a budget around 11 Million, and The Godfather had around $6 million.

(Along with the commentary above, too) I'll still never really agree with the setting bumping a movie's grade. It's like Old Style.. it's a shitty beer, but people enjoy it when they're at Wrigley Field... but, it's still a shitty beer.
Maybe movies need 2 columns... Normal grade and drunk grade.

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