Mediocre Movie Club Movie Reviews

Skeleton Twins

8/15/2015

B
3.13

I don't know if a non-comedian could even pull this script off like [Bill] Hader and [Kristen] Wiig do - Shane

The Skeleton Twins is a mechanical, melodramatic, manipulative, perceptive, poignant, and pretty funny jumble of a movie - Jon

Not since Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Devito teamed up has Hollywood given us a better pairing - Sean

Initial Review by Sean

“I’ve seen it, it’s good but depressing”- Ashli Keller.

I think if you tell most people, hey do you wanna watch a movie with Bill Hader, Kristen Wiig, and Luke Wilson they’d probably either say- “sure sounds funny” or if you’re Bryan Hartman you say “Ahh shit Riley. Kristen Wiig ceiling is D-.” One thing I’m certain of is that Bryan was not expecting a movie about depression and suicide. The movie doesn’t take long to let us know that’s exactly what we’ll be seeing starting with a pair of bi-coastal suicide attempts. Almost immediately we get a solid Marley and Me joke to let us know that Hader and Wiig’s comedy chops won’t get lost in a 100% depressing movie. Maggie and Milo haven’t spoken in a decade for some untold reason but the “gruesome twosome” are clearly more comfortable and able to be themselves around each other than anyone else. Their twin bond remained strong.

We don’t get much background to their younger childhood to see if it was as screwed up but we know Maggie started making out with boys in 5th grade and that Milo was molested by his teacher at 15. Their father committed suicide, their mom is now an eccentric who couldn’t bother to attend Maggie’s wedding. Maggie’s psyche is fractured enough to bounce around to every activity the local YMCA has to offer and screw the instructor all the while lying to sweetheart Lance about planning a family. A lifetime of pain leads the two of them to say the most hurtful things imaginable one-upping each other until Maggie finally suggests next time Milo should just cut deeper. They both immediately regret what was just said and moreso cannot take it back. With Milo heading back to California and Maggies marriage potentially over she decides to finish what she was starting at the beginning of the movie. Side note- weighing ones self down for a suicidal drowning has got to be among the worst ways to do it. Luckily Milo arrives to save the day and the two of them embrace and the camera shows that the two goldfish survived their leaky bag near death experience as well. I’m sure some reviewers will downgrade the movie for tying a little bit too neat a bow on a movie with this subject matter suggesting all is well but I’m fine with it. Speaking of that neat bow- we’re not left depressed Ashli, they made it.

The success of Skeleton Twins, and any movie with its concept with 2 leads on screen at all times mostly together relies on the chemistry between those two leads, even moreso when you make them twins. Not since Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Devito eamed up has Hollywood given us a better pairing. You can very clearly see that chemistry between Hader and Wiig. Each joining SNL in 2005 and leaving only 1 year apart they have literally spent thousands of hours in the same room together. The scene together in the dentists office harkens back to the years at SNL just being high and goofy and whether you can’t help but enjoy the moment. The lip sync scene with the two of them twinning out is on the short list of funnest scenes we’ve had in the MMC.

Luke Wilson is an A+ in this movie. He stole every scene he was in with the exception of the W face he makes when confronting Maggie about the birth control pills. I get it when people hate on the lovable buffoon persona that he and his brother play so well. But here’s the thing about Lance. We’ve all met the person who seems a little too enthusiastic and gung ho and interested in what you are doing or saying that it feels like total bullshit. Time and again they continue to show the same zest for all things life and time and again you think, he’s this asshole. Eventually you accept they’re just a weird dude that genuinely enjoys other people and you can’t help but feel envious of that energy but at the same time think about how exhausting being that way would be. Only it’s not exhausting to that person just to us normal people who don’t actually care.

“This harness has my balls in my throat, it’s all part of the experience.” This is one of those funny lines you hear and think, that was absolutely something one of the writers heard when he decided to check out the new climbing gym in town a couple of years ago and has been dying to use.

I’m not one of those guys that never cries at movies, I cry frequently when it’s called for. Given the subject matter I’m surprised Skeleton Twins did not bring any tears. A tear shed once or twice could’ve brought me to an A but I think I’ll go A- but can see myself being talked into B+

Original Review by Sean.

98 Comments

Admin

8/10/2015 03:36:44 am

Spot saved for direct replies to Sean's review.

Bryan

8/10/2015 01:55:40 pm

How sure are you it's the same two goldfish? I thought for sure it was new ones.

Bobby

8/10/2015 02:07:11 pm

Yeah, I didn't see any reason to believe that the goldfish lived... I just assumed the bought 4 new ones.

Lane

8/10/2015 02:15:58 pm

Yeah, I was pretty sure she killed the goldfish and that those were new goldfish at the end.

Jon

8/10/2015 03:42:24 pm

Fuck anyone that says they never cry at movies. That hyper-masculine nonsense is going away, and the world will be better for it.

Likey McLikerson

8/10/2015 04:13:59 pm

I nominate this comment for review of the year.

8/10/2015 04:18:02 pm

Crying >>>>>>> applauding.

Phil

8/10/2015 04:17:10 am

“The Skeleton Twins” gave itself an extremely high degree of difficulty – make a movie about suicide that’s also funny. For the most part, it succeeds at this. The Skeleton Twins has some very funny moments, a couple amazing performances, and some really good ideas that came together in a satisfying package.

Initially, this movie felt to me to be about how families deal with tragedy. Maggie and Milo at one point wonder why they drifted apart, and I would suspect that a lot of that has to do with what they symbolize to each other, specifically their family life. Initially, we are told that their father is what screwed them up so badly, committing suicide at some point during their childhood. Then we meet their mother Judy, a cold, uncaring woman who is more concerned with herself and her spiritual journeys than she is her family. We only have a few minutes to deal with Judy, and in that time, we understand why everyone connected to her has thought about “escaping” as Maggie put it. Maggie and Milo do not necessarily hate each other, but we can quickly understand why they would not even want to think about their childhood, and one comes to have the other symbolize that painful experience.

Maybe this is why Maggie is constantly considering suicide. Judy was her motherly role model, and a young Judy probably wasn’t much different from Maggie. Between Milo and Maggie, Maggie is the more interesting character and the real star of the movie, which is too bad because Kristen Wiig is only ok in the role. Her parents have her so screwed up that she is incapable of loving herself, being forced to find approval through sex. She becomes one of those people with no goals of their own, striving for what she is “supposed” to want, namely a family, house, and children. We can easily see Judy being the same way and eventually deciding to completely ignore all those “supposed to want” things and trying to find the answer herself through some sort of spiritual awakening. This rejection is likely what led to the father of the family (is he ever named?) finally choosing to “escape.”

Then we have Milo, who is a little simpler to wrap our heads around. His suicide attempt is real and at his lowest moment, having just lost his boyfriend. Unlike Maggie, he does have his own dreams, but he is unable to obtain them. An unobtainable dream proves to be just as destructive as having no dreams at all. Milo is like Maggie in that he is also incapable of loving himself, but unlike Maggie, his sense of validation feels like it is at a much more intimate level. I could see Milo being a serial monogamist. We especially see this in the predatory nature of the relationship with Rich, who has never cared for Milo and is using him to get a script passed along to an agent. The scenes between Milo and Rich were some of the best of the movie thanks to the overall performances of Bill Hader and Ty Burell. In general, Hader was fantastic in this movie, getting in some hilarious one-liners and several excellent scenes, especially the one about peaking in high school. Is it too early to throw Hader a Best Actor nomination?

8/10/2015 04:17:35 am

So, maybe the movie isn’t entirely about family tragedy. I don’t think it’s entirely about suicide either. Instead, this feels like a story revolving around the choices people make when life hasn’t worked out how they expect it to. Judy’s choice is a very sociopathic choice, choosing to throw away the people she should care about in the pursuit of happiness. Rich also takes a similar sociopathic approach, choosing to use Milo to get his script into the hands of a power player. Maggie & Milo’s father chooses suicide, generally considered the ultimate selfish choice. Maggie & Milo have learned from the father and are considering the same route, even using similar methods to him. Throughout the movie, we have a recurring theme of water symbolizing death – their father jumped off a bridge, Milo’s suicide attempt was in a bath tub, the near-dead fish, the broken aquariums, and eventually culminating in Maggie’s attempt to drown herself. (Agreed with Riley that this would be the worst suicide choice I can think of. However, given the water theme, I understood the decision within the context of the movie.) In the end, the twins finally learn that it’s ok to just hit the reset button and figure things out together. It’s a hard thing to do to be willing to take a couple steps back in life to eventually move forward, but in the end, we feel like Maggie and Milo have done just that. We can’t all be as lucky as Lance, who seemed perfectly content with how life has turned out. Do things end a little too neatly like Riley suggests? Sure, but that’s not a bad thing here. I interpreted it to be this message, so in the context of this story, I’m fine with it.

This is a really good movie that I find more to like as I continue to consider it. There are several great performances, poignant scenes, and great quotes. (“Maybe you should have cut deeper!” That is a new all-time line in the “wow, too far” category.) I think it’s a movie I’m going to remember the parts of more fondly than the whole though. It’s a character study, so the plot has some points where it meanders a little, and the lip-syncing scene felt wildly out of place. All that being said, this is a great movie that may have some dark undertones, and if you can look past that, ultimately delivers a good message.

+ Good story about how people react to life not ending up how they thought it would
+ Hader is fantastic
+ Funny one-liners and several great scenes
- Plot meanders a little

Grade: A-

Shane

8/10/2015 04:47:28 am

Maybe your review should have been deeper.

8/10/2015 05:22:47 am

Ha!

8/10/2015 05:45:04 am

I'll take this under consideration for whatever philosophical absurdity Bobby chooses next.

8/10/2015 08:36:57 am

I now expect a thoroughly deep review of Battle Royale next week...

Sean

8/10/2015 09:42:08 am

You havent made your 24 hr veto period yet Bobbo

8/10/2015 09:56:34 am

He just said what "Bobby chooses next", not what actually sticks as my pick!

Literal Bobby

8/10/2015 10:09:03 am

Glad I could be here.

8/10/2015 03:34:13 pm

but you specifically mentioned Battle Royale in your comment- literally wrong this time sir

8/10/2015 04:06:14 pm

Because I had already made the choice... So, not wrong. Jerk.

Not Jerk

8/10/2015 04:10:50 pm

He said whatever Bobby picks you said battle Royale I said don't count your chickens before they hatch you said I wasn't being specific I said yes you were you said well yea you jerk.

8/10/2015 04:15:15 pm

Huh? He said whatever I choose. I chose Battle Royale, so used that in my comment, cause even if it gets vetoed, it was still my choice... Which is all Phil said.

InShane in the Membrane

8/10/2015 04:28:11 am

The Skeleton Twins is an ambitious movie that attempts to weave in serious drama along with some light-hearted comedy. I was pleasantly surprised to say that it largely succeeded.

I cringed at the opening scene because I was afraid we were going to have another "comedic actor tries serious role and the story is just sad as shit and everyone is mopey" type thing. However, the work between Wiig and Hader drives this movie right past the failed attempts of comics going straight. The SNL alum duo managed to make a movie where you there are serious issues taken very seriously, but they also give us some great jokes and funny scenes that uplift the viewer. It's a more realistic portrayal of how we are: Even depressed people like to put on some nitrous-oxide and crack-wise. I don't know if a non-comedian could even pull this script off like Hader and Wiig do. And really, I'm not sure if it doesn't work if one or the other of them isn't here.

Outside of our two main players, we get Luke Wilson as Lance The Nice Guy. He plays off the other two not as a clueless nice guy, but as a nice guy who's in on the joke. Too often a character like that is just a nice guy who never gets the jokes. Just basically a placeholder or a cardboard cutout of a person. But Wilson gives us someone real to sympathize with when he's hurt.

The storylines are complex and director Craig Johnson doesn't dumb them down for the viewer. I liked that we learn about the back-story slowly rather than all at once. We're informed by what we're not told. Granted, there were some confusing parts, but overall I feel like it was very much a positive.

One subtlety I enjoyed was how the story uses two traumatic childhood events to propel Wiig and Hader as adults. Of course Hader is a fuck-up, he was raped by his teacher who he still actually loves. And I don't think I'm wrong here, but Wiig's last voicemail to Hader insinuates that their father killed himself. So it's not surprising that either character, who both obviously revere their father, would find this an acceptable option. (Though I thought Wiig's voiceover work on the voicemail was far below the quality of the rest of her performance.)

Having a gay brother and straight sister was a decision that really paid off. The sharing of makeup as children really gave them an extra depth of closeness that I'm not sure a couple of straight twins would have.

The flashbacks were used well for the most part, though I still have no idea why the Skeletons were so important. We get a flashback to Halloween, but I don't know why that Halloween was so special. Am I missing something? Was that the Dad's last Halloween?

The relationship between adult Hader and his teacher was a bit forced and predictable. I just didn't buy that Hader would go there just to talk after being spurned.

The last scene was a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure how or why Hader's character would know Wiig was going to do suicide by drowning. It was too convenient.

To go out on a positive note: Will you go to the prom with me?

B/B+ Sell me up or down, fools.

8/10/2015 05:24:35 am

According to the Jon Kissel index I think you're easily a B-.

B+ Formally very strong, but lacking in strong emotional resonance. The big emotional boost is necessary to get to A range. No bad scenes allowed.
B Highest grade allowable if movie has a bad scene. Could be pinnacle of genre without getting out of genre ghetto.
B- Has one serious problem (objective problem like bad acting, annoying direction, multiple bad lines of dialogue, overt cliches), but no anger-making.

8/10/2015 05:44:04 am

The Milo/Rich relationship is very much on the periphary here. There isn't enough there to put it in the "serious" category.

LikeBot

8/10/2015 03:25:58 pm

Liked for reference to the Jon Kissel index. It really is a good index.

8/10/2015 05:42:05 am

Halloween and skeletons aren't explained very well; probably just a link to their dad and another image available to fuel their fascination with death.

However, Shane touches on something I didn't bring up in my review but thought about as I considered Hader's performance. (You all are nuts thinking Luke Wilson did the best job - Hader wins the acting award in this one by a landslide.) Which is harder to do - being a dramatic actor and going to comedy, or being a comedic actor and going to drama? Even though the drama actors get all the credit, I think it has to be MUCH easier for comedic actors to go into drama. We have some pretty clear results that it can be done time and time again. The two biggest examples that stick out to me would be Adam Sandler in Punch Drunk Love and, the all-time trump card, Monique winning a freaking Oscar in Precious Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire. Maybe there just aren't enough examples of dramatic actors flipping to a comedy as it could be seen as "slumming it," but it feels like lately that has led to very shaky results - I'm thinking mainly of Johnny Depp in Mortdecai most recently.

8/10/2015 07:14:08 am

I agree Hader wins the day here as far as performance, though I wasn't a fan of his reaction to Teach coming onto him again. I think that was more o the director than anything else.

I think going from acting to doing comedy is harder. Either you're funny or you're not. You have timing or you don't. It's an instinctual thing that can't just be taught. It can be practiced, but if you don't got it, you don't got it.

8/10/2015 07:29:44 am

I dont disagree that Hader delivers the strongest performance I just loved Luke Wilson.

8/10/2015 05:55:49 am

Also Shane, I believe it's stated a couple times that their dad killed himself via jumping off a bridge.

8/10/2015 07:14:31 am

I shouldn't play Words with Friends while watching movies.

DislikeBot

8/11/2015 02:40:59 am

You still play Words with Friends?

8/10/2015 05:21:48 am

Parts of this movie were just too convenient to be considered an A movie. The timing of Maggie holding the pills at the beginning and the saving of her drowning at the end. How did Milo even get in the building? And how was he able to untie that knot so easily? And what was going on with that voicemail? That was a truly terrible scene, the voiceover as Shane mentioned, was ATROCIOUS. Everything in the movie had been so real until then.

You all have praised Luke Wilson, and yes I thought he did a good job with the over enthusiastic young male character. But wasn't he a bit too over the top? I see this persona in movies, but I'm not sure I know anyone who actually acts as a Labrador retriever all the time.

On to more positive things, Skeleton Twins was actually pretty funny. The Marley and Me and lip syncing scenes were fantastic for any comedy. Hader and Wig irritate the heck out of me on SNL, but both were good here. Wig had one scene where her typical tone of voice and melancholy from everything else she does came out, but it quickly vanished and all was well.

Skeleton Twins didn't pass the cell phone test, but was generally enjoyable to watch despite being a bit too convenient. This is one of few movies which could have used an extra 15 minutes of development, sadness, and comedy.

I'm not much into over-analyzing characters so obviously my review is much shorter than those above.

B-

8/10/2015 05:35:57 am

I knew you were going to bring up the pills and Milo getting there in the nick of time, so I didn't even bother addressing them in my review and chose to wait until now...

The pills - This was just a quick (albeit ham-fisted) way of establishing the similarities between the twins. You know how you always hear people talk about that mystical link between twins? That was getting introduced here. Feel how you want about it, but there it is.

The drowning - Again, water is linked to death all over this movie. Method is established by that. Also, recall that the voicemail ended the same way Milo ended his suicide note (See ya later) - clearly a cry for help to stop me if you can, and find me if you know me. Several of the flashback scenes involve pools, so it's reasonable to assume Milo would go to the one pool they know. And how did he get in? Well, by that token, how did Maggie get in? Because who cares it's a movie. Maybe the pool was closed that day but the rest of the facility was open. It's a pointless argument as it's done for the sake of the message.

8/10/2015 06:00:19 am

How did he even get to the facility? I'm well aware shortcuts must be taken in movies, but I often don't agree with them. Those of us who tend to be too literal/realistic get distracted by these inconsistencies.

8/10/2015 06:31:37 am

He ran? Maybe the bus was driving by there? We're given no sense of distance or time b/c they're irrelevent to the narrative. I know it's mashed up together, but that phone call and subsequent suicide attempt could have been hours apart.

8/10/2015 06:43:57 am

If there is no way of showing me how the interaction went down without it being absurd then maybe the scene should have been different.

8/10/2015 07:00:12 am

I hate to knock something unless I can provide a plausible alternative that fits the narrative. Do you have one to share?

8/10/2015 07:37:57 am

Phil you be nice, it shattered his D- ceiling expectations

8/10/2015 08:06:16 am

Do we judge sports, books, games, or design on personal ability to do better? No. It's the creators job to put together a coherent , sensible story here. And the rescue was a carved out puzzle piece, not part of a better work of art.

8/10/2015 09:33:01 am

I think that's a fair thought for the most part, but in this case you are presented with a very clear situation that has only a handful of possible outcomes. I think it's fair to ask how you would have written THAT SITUATION. In my opinion, Craig Johnson had four choices...

1) Milo arrives before the attempt - What do we have happen here? An impassioned speech about life being worth living? I guess that's fine.

2) Milo arrives too late - That's a very dark and very different movie.

3) Completely rework the scene to something different - Given the continued references to water, I don't see this happening. Why set up a theme and then completely scrap it?

4) Milo arrives in the nick of time. The choice that was ultimately arrived upon, and I was ok with it b/c it added something Option 1 could not add. Have you ever seen the documentary The Bridge? It's about the Golden Gate Bridge and how many people jump off it. At one point they talk to a couple survivors about what was going through their heads as they were falling, and all of them had the same response of "what the fuck did I just do?" I think Craig Johnson wanted to show that moment, as it's a moment you don't see portrayed often, if at all. So that's why I'm fine with it... suspension of belief was sacrificed for message, and I'm ok with that.

8/10/2015 09:33:24 am

The beginning didn't bother me one bit. For all we know, Maggie stood in front of the mirror with pills in her hands dozens of times... logically, she probably has. And maybe this time she was going to do it, but probably not... as it was implied that she wasn't ready to, until the end. So I think it was just another day in her life, and the phone call about Milo didn't save her... just interrupted the moment.

I do, as I talk about in my review, agree with the convenience of the ending.

8/10/2015 09:36:45 am

While dark, I don't think #2 makes it a completely different movie...

It actually would have felt pretty genuine to everything we just watched... even if it's not the movie/result most people would ever want to see. I did offer a way to make it work... which I, at least, think would been simple and fitting.

8/10/2015 01:57:56 pm

The first scene's timing was fine to get the movie started. It didn't bother me nearly as much as the last. It didn't have made-up water symbolism as well.

Drew

8/10/2015 06:50:12 am

Predictability ruins everything.

Skeleton Twins focused on reconnecting. Cleary, this was seen between Maggie and Milo but viewers also witnessed their reconnection with those in their secondary relationships. The reconnecting part is an interesting aspect, which will be delved into later, but the entirety of the story was tipped off by its name. Twins Maggie and Milo kept secrets from everyone, even each other. That had to be a reason they did not speak for ten years until Milo attempted suicide. Regardless, they end up reconnecting through ebbs and flows of their own and reach a happy ending.

The reconnecting idea was interesting but there was a lot of it taking place. Viewers needed to see the restitution of Maggie and Milo because it is central to the story but their secondary, even tertiary, relationships caused friction between the siblings. Their mother, Rich, Billy, and Lance all bit them in their rebuilding phase, some more significant than others, but served a purpose. That made the story interesting in a real world perspective.

Milo was completely thin skinned and not mentally tough. He, more or less, acted out to get attention. He got drunk on “dyke night” and belligerently stormed into the marital bedroom and bellowed “It was ‘dyke night!’” He sought out his perverted high school English teacher for reasons unknown. Just to say hello? When randomly appeared at Rich’s house, Milo was rejected and then drank away his sorrow. Not to mention his unbeknownst invitation to his and Maggie’s estranged mother. Who would do something that erratic? Milo’s mental capacity was that of a melodramatic teenager who pouted when he did not get his way. Finally, Bill Hader’s portrayal of Milo appeared like a calm version of his Saturday Night Live character Stefon. That is not good when attempting to be serious.

Maggie, on the other hand, was more pragmatic in her approaches. Convinced Milo to help Lance clear brush, went out on Halloween, attempted to do nice things for Milo. Her motivations could be questioned but she felt rather motherly toward him. She got a moment of weakness and trusted him by telling those secrets he later exposed but all in all she came off more mature than Milo.

A great positive was the chemistry between Kristen Wiig and Hader. Their on – screen chemistry was electric and Craig Johnson displayed it. Their comedic timing was also spot on and that is a compliment to them. We can discuss the success of SNL alums but these two, when together, pulled off a great performance. Separately, that was a different story but together they were great.

What was that lip sync scene anyway? Was that supposed to make viewers laugh hysterically? If so, it failed. All it did was ruin a song I actually like – yes I have no problem admitting that so go kick rocks. It could be a moment where Milo attempted to cheer up Maggie but their chemistry could have produced some other thing that was less over the top. What about a witty line?

What was most bothersome was the predictability. Of course Maggie was on birth control. Of course Milo was going to give away her secret. Of course Lance would leave once he found it and confronted Maggie when she has this epiphany of a day. Of course Maggie and Milo would patch up their rocky relationship. Bah!

Despite all that, Skeleton Twins was not a terrible film but not great either.

Grade: C+

8/10/2015 07:17:47 am

"He sought out his perverted high school English teacher for reasons unknown. Just to say hello?"

Reasons unknown?! He seeks validation through sexual partners, which is identical to his sister. He's lonely, and from what we are presented, he's had two serious relationships - the one that kicks the story off, and this one with his teacher. I think he's reconnecting with that.

As for your assertion that "predictability ruins everything," I think you're missing the reason WHY you were able to see all this coming - namely, solid character development. I think a lot of us figured out Maggie was on birth control; we learned that b/c we knew her and her awful childhood. Of course Milo was going to say something; his entire character was based around recognizing who you are as a person (openly gay early in life, willing to shoot for dreams, etc) and he wanted the same for Maggie. And of course Lance was going to react like that; he wanted kids. And of course they were going to patch things up; how often do we hear about sticking together.

8/10/2015 08:28:22 am

Well you could see it that way or when Milo replied after the announcement of trying to have children, "I thought you didn't want kids."

Milo was also a jerk. Maggie was correct in his desire to seek revenge.

Lance was a like a new little puppy. Completely naive to the world. He had no idea about the birth control pills and would not have known unless someone told him. He left her because she cheated on him - several times - and he was heartbroken.

Sticking together was a bit cheesy. To be fair, it will always be that way. In real life, sticking it out is a strong attribute, but in my mind it's an easy way out.

8/10/2015 09:10:29 am

"He had no idea about the birth control pills and would not have known unless someone told him."

100:1 says none of us would have known. I didn't see him as naive at all.

8/10/2015 09:33:23 am

Bryan, he didn't know Maggie. He thought he did and believed her like a fool. He should have been a bit more perceptive and had more deductive reasoning skills. I don't recall Maggie answering Milo's question at the dinner table. I think it was Lance who replied.

8/10/2015 09:38:53 am

I see no reason why Lance would have known about the pills. Chronically depressed people can become very good at putting on certain faces and being very believable. Aside from that, she really did seem to care about Lance.. so her affection was never in question and he had no reason to believe she would be taking and hiding BC. And with the way Lance's mind works, he was quicker to blame himself and worry about infertility than to look at somebody else being at fault.

8/10/2015 09:52:43 am

Woah, woah, you're implying that humans in relationships don't keep secrets and if they do, they're easily uncovered. That's bold to say the least.

8/10/2015 10:03:26 am

Bryan, I never implied that. I implied people should not be blind when in them.

8/10/2015 10:49:01 am

Of course he did not know it. He was a naive, nice guy who thought everything was fine. He never, for a moment, thought otherwise. There was a clue at the dinner scene when they discussed this. Also, why did not clean the bathroom (that is a weird concept)? Yes, she cared about Lance and he her but how long have they started to try? We can only assume within the year (if it is longer than that, then Lance is a complete moron). Why did it never occur to him it takes two to create a child?

8/10/2015 11:01:40 am

Even when you clean a bathroom, it's unlikely that you actually play around with the decorative soap bowl and see what's inside it, right? Or maybe she made a point to keep the bathroom clean... regardless, there was no reason for him to lose trust in her.

But... he didn't think everything was just fine. He clearly realizes it's not working since she's not pregnant yet, and that something isn't right. He thought HE was the problem. And most people don't jump to blame others unless there's good reason to, they're selfish, and possibly out of some guilt of their own. It's not like they weren't having sex or she was being distant and cold toward him. Their relationship seemed fine and functional, so on that part, why wouldn't he think everything is okay?

8/10/2015 11:29:11 am

Maybe it's all sperm and eggs in the Landry bloodline and Texas, but not all families are as fruitful even after years of trying.

8/10/2015 12:09:07 pm

I love how Bryan just throws out insults to help the conversation. Way to be a jackass! Even if they try for a long time, would they not seek fertility advice? Wouldn't the mere idea cause a conversation? Absolutely.

I reject that notion, Bobby. Lance nonchalantly suggested how he hoped it wasn't him. It was not like he had an in depth with Milo about the process. He merely suggested "like, eh, I hope I'm not the problem." Not exactly a big concern.

Yes, when I clean the bathroom and there is decorative soap around, I like to look around. I tend to get curious as to what is around. As if anyone just simply wears blinders and pays no attention to his/her surroundings. Unreal.

8/10/2015 12:40:35 pm

Reject it all you want...

But, but Lance saying that he's worried about 'shooting blanks', and being paranoid about it, sparked Milo drop the hint.. to which Lance replied "I don't think Maggie would hide something like that from me..."
Cause he had no reason to think she would. Trust in your spouse is not the same as being naive.

And cleaning a bathroom of your own, in a place you don't share with somebody, is also completely different than how spouses may do things when they live together... something of which you and I have no experience to draw from, so any anecdotal evidence won't hold much weight.

8/10/2015 01:02:43 pm

But.....he wasn't paranoid. He nonchalantly mentioned it and Milo replied it to get back at Maggie.

He said that because he did not know her as well as he thought he did. It was as if they never had a healthy conversation about babies and he just blindly accepted whatever Maggie said.

There is no difference in cleaning bathrooms. A marriage way, a hotel way, a kid way, cleaning lady way, it all matters little. People get curious and any idea to the contrary is silly.

8/10/2015 01:09:39 pm

Lance is the one who actually used the word paranoid when talking to Milo about it, that wasn't added for my own argument's sake. There was nothing to imply that Lance and Maggie never talked about it. Lance was still positive about the experience, expecting (more hoping) that it'll happen in Hawaii. Also, never actually trying to make a baby.. I couldn't comment as to how most of those conversations go... but i see no reason for a husband to lose trust in his wife since there are such a number of reasons a couple doesn't get pregnant, even when trying, and 'my spouse is lying and hiding things from me' is likely low on the list since it's one that nobody wants to believe or make the leap to.

8/10/2015 01:43:18 pm

"There was nothing to imply that Lance and Maggie never talked about it."

With the birth control packet in his hand and tears in his eyes, Lance looked at Maggie and asked "If you did not want to have kids, why didn't you tell me?" That question and situation greatly asserts they never had a healthy conversation about the prospect of having children.

Believe it or not, when dating I actually had the "baby conversation." Things go a little fast at my age, I admit, but when it is mentioned, the woman is either emphatic about having or not having children. It only makes sense if both are on the same page. Therefore if either one is unsure but fakes it, the last thing he/she needs is a partner who is excited about the idea of it. Maggie was not exactly on board but Lance was too excited and naive to be perceptive about her feelings.

8/10/2015 02:04:41 pm

That doesn't at all imply they didn't have conversations before.... only that she never told him straight out that she wasn't ready for kids and/or had other issues to deal with. Conversations still likely happened, as they've been married for a couple years at that point and it was clear he had the notion they were trying. It's more than reasonable to think that she went along with it because she wanted to make him happy (even if falsely so) and be a good partner to the man she really cares about (even if while doing many things to conflict that at the same time).

Conversations about having a baby with a girlfriend are still likely far different from conversations with a wife of 2+ years, while one party is left with the notion that they're on board, especially while actually trying to get pregnant. Again, I don't see our own anecdotal evidence being a strong player here.

8/10/2015 02:21:11 pm

"Conversations still likely happened, as they've been married for a couple years at that point and it was clear he had the notion they were trying."

I presented solid evidence from which I gathered my opinion and your reply is conversations "likely happened" based off an idea of marriage. Unreal.

It is fine to throw out my arguments because I am not married and dismiss a serious conversation over children for the same reason but it is quickly turning into a copout.

Present for me solid evidence Maggie and Lance had a healthy conversation over children. Maggie was able to have such conversations but as it turned out, she did not share that desire.

8/10/2015 02:42:43 pm

Drew, you know that people are really, really good at lying, right?

"the woman is either emphatic about having or not having children." This is 100% not true. There are thousands of levels of desire to have a baby.

8/10/2015 02:48:24 pm

Lance told Milo by saying, "We're trying to get pregnant." Which Maggie confirmed. and then he said " and I say 'we' are trying, because it's not sexist that way" then to Maggie, "That's what you told me."

Which means they talked about it, and apparently how to tell others about it. Which is more evidence for it, there there seems to be against it.

Milo then saying "I thought you never wanted to have kids" would seem pretty irrelevant, as Maggie comes back with "yeah, maybe something i said in high school," which is a reasonable way of explaining that away.

Regardless, we're not getting anywhere with this. So if others want to chime in, declare a winner, or add more... all the better.

8/10/2015 02:50:13 pm

So, Bryan, list these "thousands of levels of desire to have a baby."

8/10/2015 02:57:33 pm

Well there is zero desire, then there is 100% desire. In between you'll find... 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.8 3.9 4 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7 4.8 4.9 5 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 5.5 5.6 5.7 5.8 5.9 6 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 6.6 6.7 6.8 6.9 7 7.1 7.2 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.6 7.7 7.8 7.9 8 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.6 8.7 8.8 8.9 9 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5 9.6 9.7 9.8 9.9 10 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.8 10.9 11 11.1 11.2 11.3 11.4 11.5 11.6 11.7 11.8 11.9 12 12.1 12.2 12.3 12.4 12.5 12.6 12.7 12.8 12.9 13 13.1 13.2 13.3 13.4 13.5 13.6 13.7 13.8 13.9 14 14.1 14.2 14.3 14.4 14.5 14.6 14.7 14.8 14.9 15 15.1 15.2 15.3 15.4 15.5 15.6 15.7 15.8 15.9 16 16.1 16.2 16.3 16.4 16.5 16.6 16.7 16.8 16.9 17 17.1 17.2 17.3 17.4 17.5 17.6 17.7 17.8 17.9 18 18.1 18.2 18.3 18.4 18.5 18.6 18.7 18.8 18.9 19 19.1 19.2 19.3 19.4 19.5 19.6 19.7 19.8 19.9 20 20.1 20.2 20.3 20.4 20.5 20.6 20.7 20.8 20.9 21 21.1 21.2 21.3 21.4 21.5 21.6 21.7 21.8 21.9 22 22.1 22.2 22.3 22.4 22.5 22.6 22.7 22.8 22.9 23 23.1 23.2 23.3 23.4 23.5 23.6 23.7 23.8 23.9 24 24.1 24.2 24.3 24.4 24.5 24.6 24.7 24.8 24.9 25 25.1 25.2 25.3 25.4 25.5 25.6 25.7 25.8 25.9 26 26.1 26.2 26.3 26.4 26.5 26.6 26.7 26.8 26.9 27 27.1 27.2 27.3 27.4 27.5 27.6 27.7 27.8 27.9 28 28.1 28.2 28.3 28.4 28.5 28.6 28.7 28.8 28.9 29 29.1 29.2 29.3 29.4 29.5 29.6 29.7 29.8 29.9 30 30.1 30.2 30.3 30.4 30.5 30.6 30.7 30.8 30.9 31 31.1 31.2 31.3 31.4 31.5 31.6 31.7 31.8 31.9 32 32.1 32.2 32.3 32.4 32.5 32.6 32.7 32.8 32.9 33 33.1 33.2 33.3 33.4 33.5 33.6 33.7 33.8 33.9 34 34.1 34.2 34.3 34.4 34.5 34.6 34.7 34.8 34.9 35 35.1 35.2 35.3 35.4 35.5 35.6 35.7 35.8 35.9 36 36.1 36.2 36.3 36.4 36.5 36.6 36.7 36.8 36.9 37 37.1 37.2 37.3 37.4 37.5 37.6 37.7 37.8 37.9 38 38.1 38.2 38.3 38.4 38.5 38.6 38.7 38.8 38.9 39 39.1 39.2 39.3 39.4 39.5 39.6 39.7 39.8 39.9 40 40.1 40.2 40.3 40.4 40.5 40.6 40.7 40.8 40.9 41 41.1 41.2 41.3 41.4 41.5 41.6 41.7 41.8 41.9 42 42.1 42.2 42.3 42.4 42.5 42.6 42.7 42.8 42.9 43 43.1 43.2 43.3 43.4 43.5 43.6 43.7 43.8 43.9 44 44.1 44.2 44.3 44.4 44.5 44.6 44.7 44.8 44.9 45 45.1 45.2 45.3 45.4 45.5 45.6 45.7 45.8 45.9 46 46.1 46.2 46.3 46.4 46.5 46.6 46.7 46.8 46.9 47 47.1 47.2 47.3 47.4 47.5 47.6 47.7 47.8 47.9 48 48.1 48.2 48.3 48.4 48.5 48.6 48.7 48.8 48.9 49 49.1 49.2 49.3 49.4 49.5 49.6 49.7 49.8 49.9 50 50.1 50.2 50.3 50.4 50.5 50.6 50.7 50.8 50.9 51 51.1 51.2 51.3 51.4 51.5 51.6 51.7 51.8 51.9 52 52.1 52.2 52.3 52.4 52.5 52.6 52.7 52.8 52.9 53 53.1 53.2 53.3 53.4 53.5 53.6 53.7 53.8 53.9 54 54.1 54.2 54.3 54.4 54.5 54.6 54.7 54.8 54.9 55 55.1 55.2 55.3 55.4 55.5 55.6 55.7 55.8 55.9 56 56.1 56.2 56.3 56.4 56.5 56.6 56.7 56.8 56.9 57 57.1 57.2 57.3 57.4 57.5 57.6 57.7 57.8 57.9 58 58.1 58.2 58.3 58.4 58.5 58.6 58.7 58.8 58.9 59 59.1 59.2 59.3 59.4 59.5 59.6 59.7 59.8 59.9 60 60.1 60.2 60.3 60.4 60.5 60.6 60.7 60.8 60.9 61 61.1 61.2 61.3 61.4 61.5 61.6 61.7 61.8 61.9 62 62.1 62.2 62.3 62.4 62.5 62.6 62.7 62.8 62.9 63 63.1 63.2 63.3 63.4 63.5 63.6 63.7 63.8 63.9 64 64.1 64.2 64.3 64.4 64.5 64.6 64.7 64.8 64.9 65 65.1 65.2 65.3 65.4 65.5 65.6 65.7 65.8 65.9 66 66.1 66.2 66.3 66.4 66.5 66.6 66.7 66.8 66.9 67 67.1 67.2 67.3 67.4 67.5 67.6 67.7 67.8 67.9 68 68.1 68.2 68.3 68.4 68.5 68.6 68.7 68.8 68.9 69 69.1 69.2 69.3 69.4 69.5 69.6 69.7 69.8 69.9 70 70.1 70.2 70.3 70.4 70.5 70.6 70.7 70.8 70.9 71 71.1 71.2 71.3 71.4 71.5 71.6 71.7 71.8 71.9 72 72.1 72.2 72.3 72.4 72.5 72.6 72.7 72.8 72.9 73 73.1 73.2 73.3 73.4 73.5 73.6 73.7 73.8 73.9 74 74.1 74.2 74.3 74.4 74.5 74.6 74.7 74.8 74.9 75 75.1 75.2 75.3 75.4 75.5 75.6 75.7 75.8 75.9 76 76.1 76.2 76.3 76.4 76.5 76.6 76.7 76.8 76.9 77 77.1 77.2 77.3 77.4 77.5 77.6 77.7 77.8 77.9 78 78.1 78.2 78.3 78.4 78.5 78.6 78.7 78.8 78.9 79 79.1 79.2 79.3 79.4 79.5 79.6 79.7 79.8 79.9 80 80.1 80.2 80.3 80.4 80.5 80.6 80.7 80.8 80.9 81 81.1 81.2 81.3 81.4 81.5 81.6 81.7 81.8 81.9 82 82.1 82.2 82.3 82.4 82.5 82.6 82.7 82.8 82.9 83 83.1 83.2 83.3 83.4 83.5 83.6 83.7 83.8 83.9 84 84.1 84.2 84.3 84.4 84.5 84.6 84.7 84.8 84.9 85 85.1 85.2 85.3 85.4 85.5 85.6 85.7 85.8 85.9 86 86.1 86.2 86.3 86.4 86.5 86.6 86.7 86.8 86.9 87 87.1 87.2 87.3 87.4 87.5 87.6 87.7 87.8 87.9 88 88.1 88.2 88.3 88.4 88.5 88.6 88.7 88.8 88.9 89 89.1 89.2 89.3 89.4 89.5 89.6 89.7 89.8 89.9 90 90.1 90.2 90.3 90.4 90.5 90.6 90.7 90.8 90.9 91 91.1 91.2 91.3 91.4 91.5 91.6 91.7 91.8 91.9 92 92.1 92.2 92.3 92.4 92.5 92.6 92.7 92.8 92.9 93 93.1 93.2 93.3 93.4 93.5 93.6 93.7 93.8 93.9 94 94.1 94.2 94.3 94.4 94.5 94.6 94.7 94.8 94.9 95 95.1 95.2 95.3 95.4 95.5 95.6 95.7 95.8 95.9 96 96.1 96.2 96.3 96.4 96.5 96.6 96.7 96.8 96.9 97 97.1 97.2 97.3 97.4 97.5 97.6 97.7 97.8 97.9 98 98.1 98.2 98.3 98.4 98.5 98.6 98.7 98.8 98.9 99 99.1 99.2 99.3 99.4 99.5 99.6 99.7 99.8 99.9

There's probably more, I'm just rounding. Kids conversations are hard.

8/10/2015 03:03:07 pm

I thought it was clear they'd had a conversation and that she was hiding the pills. Maybe she wasn't truthful about it, but they had what Lance believed to be a healthy conversation. I don't think you can see it any other way.

8/10/2015 03:13:06 pm

I'm glad Jackass Bryan returned.....

Shane, there are many ways to view anything. I never saw any evidence convincing me otherwise. Bobby mentioned the dinner conversation but that does not imply it was the necessary conversation. From what I gathered from Lance (naive and nice), they might have talked about it and all he heard was the confirmation - in any tone - and got excited forcing Maggie to hide her feelings. Then when he found the truth, it all crashed and burned. That does not make for a healthy conversation in my mind.

8/10/2015 07:18:43 am

I do think some of this was too predictable. But it was either predictable that Milo would squeal and give up the goods on the birth control or it was predictable that Lance was going to find them. It had to be one or the other because if Milo tells Lance, Lance hasn't actually "found" them.

Milo, like many other children who are victimized by adults, ends up being attracted to him. Of course he was. And of course he was mentally unstable. In addition to his mother, he was raped by his favorite teacher.

8/10/2015 07:40:32 am

Drew's criticism of Milo being overly dramatic and infantile worries me for any student who confides in him thoughts of suicide- rub some dirt on it you drama queen!!!

8/10/2015 07:42:29 am

That was Sean making the comment about Drew's criticism

Real Drew

8/10/2015 08:29:04 am

I hope that is a satirical comment.

8/10/2015 07:44:43 am

Here to defend the lip synch scene.

My analysis of the scene is this was there song that they played and danced to as kids that activated their twin powers. No matter what was going on they could lose themselves in the song together and make each other feel better. You could even see Maggie resisting at the beginning of the song thinking- you mother fucker why did you have to pick this song I want to hate you right now.

Bryan-like Complainer

8/10/2015 08:06:42 am

But how was he able to play that exact song on someone else's audio system so quickly?!?

8/10/2015 08:31:34 am

That is fine and a fair thought, but you stated it "is on the short list of funnest scenes we’ve had in the MMC." I vehemently disagree with that assessment. Not even close.

8/10/2015 08:33:10 am

He pulled out his phone, probably an aux input

8/10/2015 08:34:03 am

"Bryan Like", Air-Play is really quite simple to use. Plugging in a stereo cord is quite simple too.

8/10/2015 08:39:03 am

Sean, *air five*

8/10/2015 09:23:49 am

Disagree away Drew, but lip synch battles are so hot right now

8/10/2015 09:27:32 am

Sean, that has nothing to do with the conversation. With that in mind, pro wrestling is making a comeback!

8/10/2015 08:35:40 am

This movie was 1/2 comedy. Nearly all comedies have a predictable story.

8/10/2015 03:25:02 pm

From an outsider POV, yeah, not a healthy conversation. But from Lance's POV, it was. Since we're talking about what Lance believe and his motivations, his presumed POV is most important.

8/10/2015 04:16:38 pm

Wrong spot?

8/10/2015 08:34:48 am

Loved this scene as well. I didn't laugh out loud, but I inwardly chuckled and smiled through it.

8/10/2015 09:30:22 am

Somehow, I didn't know a thing about Skeleton Twins. I saw it pop up on my Netflix, but didn't really give it a glance until Sean picked it. So, until I watched it... All I had to go on were my friend's "nah it's worth a watch I guess" and Ashli's "I’ve seen it, it’s good but depressing” endorsements. Well, it was worth watching, and it could have been far more depressing than it was and that will vary person to person.

Now, I also have little experience with Bill Hader outside of voice work (which he's done a ton of), so I didn't have any set image of him or his SNL characters stuck in my head, since I haven't really watched SNL since high school. I thought he was excellent here in Skeleton Twins. He was brilliant in the comedic scenes and was believable and sincere throughout the film. Wiig was the perfect on screen sibling, as you can see how much chemistry was there, enhancing both characters and the movie. And I agree with Sean, in that you can't talk about the acting and refuse to compliment Luke Wilson. His performance is right up there with theirs and fits Lance seamlessly into the story and Maggie and Milo's lives.

The three most memorable scenes for me, and clearly others, were the dentist's office, the lip-syncing, and the harsh words. The dentist's office scene was great comedy and actually made me laugh out loud a couple times. Fart jokes can be funny if they fit the movie and the characters... and they worked here. More so, that scene really connects the audience to their relationship as they share the the laughs and their secrets. I thought it was really clear that Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now held some special meaning to the twins... even if it was simply watching Mannequin too many times together as children. The way the entire scene played out, especially with Lance, developed well and was just fun all around. While on the complete opposite side of fun, is the powerful line that Maggie delivers in their storm of words. "Well maybe next time you should cut deeper..." is by far the most powerful thing said in the movie. There are some great lines and quotes that most of us can relate to, but nothing impacts a character or causes the audience to pause like this does. It was a harsh reminder of where the film started and why we got to experience their story in the first place. It instantly brought my mind back to Milo in the tub and the skeleton sinking... and the acting in the scene sold it all, especially Milo's face and hesitation right after she said it.

Now, those scenes overshadowed the movie as a whole for me. The premise was great and the story developed really well, in that Milo's and Maggie's actions and situations made sense with everything we learned about them and their lives. Everything built up just as it needed to... but I sort of felt like we were spared, maybe even robbed, of the ending that felt most natural to how everything was presented and set up.

Milo's sudden rescue did not feel completely genuine to me. There was almost no reason for him to know she was at the pool (i even listened to the voicemail (which was voiced more like a letter than a phone call) again to make sure she didn't drop a hint). Sure, we can play the whole twin card or that he just knew cause she took so many classes there, but that seems like a leap in logic. And I could probably forgive all of that, if I thought the setup deserved this tidy ending. More so, I think this could have been wrapped up as it was with just a few key changes. Instead of showing Maggie pulling up the skeleton at the end, perhaps show us Milo's hand grab it and pull it back out of the frame at the beginning, and then have her mention that memory in her voice mail. Then afterwards show us that it was Milo diving to get it, and giving it back to her... which would foreshadow him saving her from drowning/suicide and also explain why he would assume that she chose the pool to do it.

Of course, I wanted the two of them to stick together... even if we all know it won't be easy and they'll both still struggle with depression, anger, and suicidal temptations. So, I don't totally mind that it wrapped up the way it did. The convenience and leaps of logic did take away from an otherwise fantastic movie though. Still, while not nearly as depressing as I thought it was leading toward, worth the watch, I guess.

B+

8/10/2015 10:09:53 am

Oftentimes someone complains about a mechanism a movie chooses to get from point a to point b and rarely is a reasonable alternative given. Bravo to Bobby for thinking out an alternative scenario. Better or worse than the original, I'd have to see it on screen to know but your idea seems plausible.

8/11/2015 01:36:18 am

That was all I was asking for earlier from Bryan when he had issues with the ending. As for Bobby's version, I felt like the movie communicated everything Bobby laid out, but in a more subtle way.

8/11/2015 02:46:30 am

What were the subtleties that worked for this? Non-existent =/= subtle.

The skeleton in the water could be your foreshadowing, but that's shot by showing Maggie picking it up later. It was Maggie's skeleton that sunk, right? If it was Milo's, it's basically what I suggested, just flipped... Which is fine if it's recalled. But it wasn't, beside the flashback.

Nothing hints as to why Milo knew where she'd be. I don't mind the time frame of him getting there, but 'twin superpower' wasn't set up well enough to be a plausible explanation.

8/10/2015 10:50:16 am

Maybe they were Starship fans, Bobby. Did that ever occur to you?!?!

8/10/2015 10:52:14 am

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply or start with that comment...

Sure, they could have been Starship fans.

8/10/2015 12:14:10 pm

It's sarcasm....figured you, of all people, would be able to get that....

8/10/2015 03:42:43 pm

103-104 connection Bobby does sarcasm, only literal Bobby exists in the MMC

8/10/2015 02:10:42 pm

We can all thank Zach Braff for “The Skeleton Twins.” No, the erstwhile “Scrubs” star had nothing to do with this film, as far as I can tell, but without the template of 2004’s “Garden State” (young, depressed, underachieving middle class white person comes back to not-so-trendy hometown and either falls in/out of love with an old/new flame while discovering something about their self and realizing that life’s not so bad after all while hip/ironic soundtrack frames protagonist’s mood perfectly while also earning Grammy nods) surely this movie wouldn’t exist. Braff tapped into the disappointment of Generation X and did something unique (though maybe not great); a lot of other movies, “The Skeleton Club” included, have ridden its long, depressed, indie rock coattails ever since.

Here’s the thing – if “The Skeleton Twins” had starred Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler, or Andy Samburg and Molly Shannon, or pretty much any other SNL or, hell, comedic actors out there, this would have been a C movie. It’s Wiig and Hader that make it good. In fact, I think they’re so good they take what is a very mediocre movie and pull it (almost) into A range.

Everybody has already pointed out the brilliance of the “Marley and Me” and dentist scenes and I 100% agree. The lip syncing scene was saved by Hader (it would have been way too forced otherwise-actually, it was too forced anyway, but Hader was still funny) and, maybe it’s just me, but I wasn’t that a.) shocked or b.) moved by the “cut deeper” scene. I could think of like 5 other things to say that he would have needed more therapy to recover from. I also really liked the depiction of their night out on Halloween. There was something so genuine about two people, going out, getting kind’ve drunk and having an awesome time, then something going wrong and the night being ruined. That happy horrible feeling was captured really well by both actors.

Oh yeah, and Luke Wilson. I always liked him better than Owen.

No one has really said much about the movie’s depiction of suicide. I thought this film did a decent job of portraying the ambiguities of such an act. I wish it had gone a little farther into exploring that.

I really, really wanted to give this movie an A-, but I just couldn’t. It needed to say something a little deeper; it needed just a little more break from its Braff-esque siblings, but it just wasn’t quite there. But sign me up for anything that Hader and Wiig do together in the future.

B+

Liked:
- The acting
- Laughing gas
- That variety of suicide methods used by the protagonists

Disliked
- didn’t dislike much about this film

Ambiguous About:
- lip syncing
- Bill Hader in drag
- The philosophy of suicide

8/10/2015 02:48:13 pm

Don't you ever say bad things about Samberg or Poehler!

To say you like, "That variety of suicide methods used by the protagonists" is quite funny.

I didn't put the Garden State connection together. I loved that movie when it first came out. I think I own it meaning an A- grade or a super deal. I'll have to look for it again. Maybe I'll rip it and nominate it.

8/10/2015 03:30:34 pm

I meant to bring up the suicide thing. I thought they treated it well. They definitely showed the ramifications without being sanctimonious about it.

8/11/2015 01:39:45 am

I added a couple thoughts on suicide itself in the discussion, such as drawing a line from Maggie's "oh shit what have I done" moment to the interviews in The Bridge. However, I don't think this is necessarily a movie "about suicide," so I left those thoughts alone for the most part. I can't remember what movie it was, but we had another discussion regarding suicide as well, where I mentioned it is an irrational act. Maybe Wake In Fright?

8/11/2015 03:18:25 am

We've had a few movies where suicides happened or were attempted.... The Sea Inside, Waking Life, and Wake in Fright come to mind. There's a movie I've wanted to pick since we've started the MMC, (Wristcutters: A Love Story) but it's never on streaming... It's an irrational A+ for me, and I could see some of you shitting all over it.. but its premise is a place/world where all people who commit suicide go.

I agree with you here though, that the movie wasn't trying to make a major statement about suicide, but took enough care to portray it well and not gloss over it, as it's major part of the twins' lives

8/10/2015 05:16:00 pm

The Skeleton Twins is a mechanical, melodramatic, manipulative, perceptive, poignant, and pretty funny jumble of a movie. That it can be all those things is alternately surprising and agitating, because I will absolutely echo the praise for the performances and some standout scenes. My frustration with how it insists on tying as many threads and dropping as many hints as it possibly can is leavened by some of the film's unique takes on indie tropes.

The run of SNL actors taking on more dramatic roles has mixed-to-positive results, though it's a small data set. Throw out Bill Murray because he didn't start doing serious roles until long after his SNL heyday. Will Ferrell has Stranger Than Fiction and Everything Must Go under his belt, and both are solid. Will Forte got a lot of acclaim for his role in Nebraska, though it didn't do a lot for me. Mike Myers in Inglourious Basterds doesn't really count. Kristen Wiig kind of lost me in the long, serious stretches of Bridesmaids, and I think she's the low actor on the totem pole here. Her face has a natural flatness to it that just isn't very interesting. Bill Hader is the big surprise in what's probably his first dramatic foray, and I'd say he nails it as the acerbic Milo. Everything he says has something extra on it. I love his enunciation of 'Dyke Night' for some reason. The more melancholy moments are just as powerful. He brings the best performances out of Wiig, particularly in the improvised nitrous scene and the lip-synching, which I loved as a totally lived-in peak into their twin pasts. Having worked together for so many years on SNL means Wiig and Hader bring built-in charisma and chemistry, something that elevates Skeleton Twins whenever they're on screen together.

I'll also throw some praise Luke Wilson's way. He's more or less vanished from wide-release cinema, and it's unclear why that happened. He's completely likable here, and while the movie acknowledges his simplicity, it doesn't make him the butt of any jokes. All you need to know about the character is the way he sits on a bench with Milo; legs spread and relaxed while Milo's clenched and tense. He knows who he is, while not exactly knowing the people around him. His earnest, slow-motion fist-pump at the end of the lip-synch montage is the best thing he's done since Idiocracy, and I hope he's able to get better roles on the back of his work here.

If these performances were in service to a better script, this might've made my best-of-2014 list. Starting with the tandem suicides, continuing with the asshole kid in the coffee shop, and ending with the climactic rescue, I'm rolling my eyes a lot. The world is slightly heightened by these instances and heightened even more by the sheer amount of salacious instance in the film. We've got predatory teachers, serial adultery, depression, death of a parent, abandonment by the other, suicide, isolation, and deception all packed in. It's a lot for as small as the film is, and it devalues the impact of each of those things on their own.

Again, this is frustrating because some of those things are genuinely unique in their approach, especially involving Milo. He seems pretty ok with being seduced and molested at 15. Richard Dawkins gave an interview a few years ago where he talked very casually about being molested in his prep school, as if it were just a thing that happened and who really cares. Milo isn't as dismissive of his experience, but takes the opposite tack of it being an overall good thing, and besides the general ickiness of it, the viewer's given no reason to not believe him. My takeaway was how hard it must be to be a gay teenager in a small town, and not, fuck that pervert Phil Dunphy. Additionally, there's Milo spinning the It Gets Better campaign on its head. What if it doesn't? What if your suffering and isolation in high school doesn't give you the perspective and the perseverance to transcend all the bullying, and even worse, what if those that did that bullying lead happy lives in spite of it? It's a dark view in a dark film, and in reading interviews with Johnson, it's not surprising that the movie was initially more about Milo, with the Maggie stuff added later. Johnson's gay himself, so he can give a more authentic picture of Milo's character. I think the better movie was Johnson's initial impulse.

Not a lot said so far on the root of their problems, which I'd put on a genetic predisposition to depression. Suicide likely has a genetic component, and depression certainly does. I think it's as simple as that. They'll be able to help each other going forward, but it'll always be there.

The Skeleton Twins is aimed squarely at me in places, as I love me some dark humor. There's just too many capital-D Dramatic moments to get me fully on its wavelength. Ashli needs to be less melodramatic (Geoff-Fest 2013 shout-out), and so does The Skeleton Twins. B-

Cooker

9/14/2015 10:47:53 am

Skeleton Twins. Good acting. Good characters. Good premise. Wanted to see more from their childhood. Didn’t take notes for in-depth response, but review a month late anyway. Enjoyed. B+

9/14/2015 12:29:32 pm

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Skeleton Twins

B
3.13

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Skeleton Twins

B3.13

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B
3.13